1948 Case with Luigi Paiano

[OpusReticulatum]

Has anyone's judge changed in the middle of their case?

Yes. This is not entirely uncommon.

Please check your PM.

[oscargerst]

Hello, I came across this forum and I am in the process of thinking about moving forward with my case with Mr. Paiano. I believe I have a "normal" 1948 case (Me->F->GM->GGF). In addition, my father's cousin received her Italian citizenship through the same male (GGF to me, GF to her), but in her case, it was all male lineage (i.e., Her->F->GF). I do have her records she used to get the Italian citizenship. Hopefully, that makes things a bit easier or at least "normal". I am a US citizen.

I have several questions/concerns about getting an Italian citizenship. Specifically related to:
- taxes (US Taxes, potential Italian taxes)
- adding my wife and children to the case (concerns about not knowing my kids future and how it may impact them in the negative, e.g. security clearance).

Since these are probably more drawn out questions, I would love to chat with those who have gone through the process and understand the process/positives/negatives better than me. If you have been through this process and understand the plusses and minuses and you are interested in chatting further please message me. Thank you so much.

[camilamv]

Hi everybody! I´ve just sent my case to Luigi to introduce my case in court. I know this is a long process in which patience is extremely necessary. However, I was wondering if anyone has recently introduced their case (within the last year) and if you feel or have been told that processes may be getting slower than a couple of years ago?

Also, any information regarding the current situation with the how the cases are going, maybe getting tougher/stricter than before?
I'm completely new to the whole context, so anything that feeds my patience would be extremely helpful.

Thanks a lot!

[scoziaitaliano]

Delighted to receive an early Christmas present in the form of a copy of my Italian birth certificate from Luigi by e-mail this morning! The last stages moved remarkably quickly (judgment was only pronounced on 20 July and we thereafter used the 30 day appeal route rather than the six month route) and also in part due to Luigi being able to persuade my commune to recognise the judgment very quickly!

So the journey that began with an application being lodged on my behalf at the Tribunale Ordinario di Roma on 7 Novembre 2016 is now very nearly at a close: I'll register with AIRE tonight online and hopefully a passport won't take too much longer to have in hand.

Many thanks for all the tips and assistance provided over the course of this journey - it has not been without its ups and downs but will be infinitely worthwhile in the longer term for me. I'll provide a more detailed update over the Festive holidays - meantime buon natale a tutti!

[oscargerst]

Congratulations scoziaitaliano!

[camilamv]

Hey, does anyone know if court cases have been getting slower compared to 2015,2016?
I just entered my case with Luigi, but from the 2017 and 2018 comments I´ve read, I got the feeling that this is being even less smooth than ever, would anyone agree?

Also, I would like to know what can make a case ''special'' or ''complicated'' since some people have been referring to their cases like that.

Thanks so much for your help!

[Barga1948]

Delighted to receive an early Christmas present in the form of a copy of my Italian birth certificate from Luigi by e-mail this morning! The last stages moved remarkably quickly (judgment was only pronounced on 20 July and we thereafter used the 30 day appeal route rather than the six month route) and also in part due to Luigi being able to persuade my commune to recognise the judgment very quickly!

So the journey that began with an application being lodged on my behalf at the Tribunale Ordinario di Roma on 7 Novembre 2016 is now very nearly at a close: I'll register with AIRE tonight online and hopefully a passport won't take too much longer to have in hand.

Many thanks for all the tips and assistance provided over the course of this journey - it has not been without its ups and downs but will be infinitely worthwhile in the longer term for me. I'll provide a more detailed update over the Festive holidays - meantime buon natale a tutti!

Notizie fantastiche -- Congratulations scoziaitaliano --
Make sure to also request your Codice Fiscale when you go get your passport.

Felicitaciones,

[tsmith19983]

Hey, does anyone know if court cases have been getting slower compared to 2015,2016?
I just entered my case with Luigi, but from the 2017 and 2018 comments I´ve read, I got the feeling that this is being even less smooth than ever, would anyone agree?

Also, I would like to know what can make a case ''special'' or ''complicated'' since some people have been referring to their cases like that.

Thanks so much for your help!

I believe they have been getting slower compared to past years. My case was introduced by Luigi on May 4, 2018. We heard nothing until September 25th, when Luigi notified us our first hearing is schedule for September 17, 2019. So, almost 18 months from filing to first hearing. That seems to be a longer time period than what people were reporting a year to two ago.

[scoziaitaliano]

Delighted to receive an early Christmas present in the form of a copy of my Italian birth certificate from Luigi by e-mail this morning! The last stages moved remarkably quickly (judgment was only pronounced on 20 July and we thereafter used the 30 day appeal route rather than the six month route) and also in part due to Luigi being able to persuade my commune to recognise the judgment very quickly!

So the journey that began with an application being lodged on my behalf at the Tribunale Ordinario di Roma on 7 Novembre 2016 is now very nearly at a close: I'll register with AIRE tonight online and hopefully a passport won't take too much longer to have in hand.

Many thanks for all the tips and assistance provided over the course of this journey - it has not been without its ups and downs but will be infinitely worthwhile in the longer term for me. I'll provide a more detailed update over the Festive holidays - meantime buon natale a tutti!

Just by way of update the Consulate has issued a request to my Comune effectively seeking to confirm I am who I say I am: I get the feeling these cases are fairly unusual in this part of the world. That went out on 3 January and I was copied in: a response still appears to be awaited. Once that is confirmed then hopefully the AIRE application can be accepted and my passport will follow shortly thereafter. Once all this is wrapped up I'll provide a more detailed narrative!

[scoziaitaliano]

Notizie fantastiche -- Congratulations scoziaitaliano --
Make sure to also request your Codice Fiscale when you go get your passport.

Felicitaciones,

Grazie Barga1948 - good reminder re the Codice Fiscale!

[Alexr119]

Hello,

My appeal period on my case expired and the birthdate for one person in my case has been written wrong by the court in the decision. Luigi told me it could take 6-12+ months to correct this. Has anyone else experienced this? It seems beyond absurd that it will take this long

[carylaaa]

Hi, couple questions.

1. Has anyone asked Luigi for copies of their petition and exhibits filed with the court (and were you able to obtain them)? I realize that everyone no doubt kept copies of everything sent to Luigi, but I'm asking if you obtained copies of the official versions filed with the court.

2. Has anyone had errors in their original petition filed with the court and if so was an amendment or supplemental petition/document filed with the court in order to correct those errors?

I know someone will respond "ask Luigi" but just wondered if anyone else had asked for copies of their filed records....and as to #2 I received a confusing message from Luigi in that he said the 'errors would be explained at the hearing' Before I email him again for clarification, I just wondered if anyone else has experienced this.

Thank you

[ffxanthony]

Hi all! I also have FINALLY received news that my 1948 case has been won. Our timeline was EXTREMELY long ... 6 years almost! I first started researching ancestry in summer 2013, and our judgment was handed down only a week ago. This gives you an idea:

26/03/2014 - ISCRIZIONE RUOLO GENERALE
11/04/2014 - ASSEGNAZIONE A SEZIONE
22/04/2014 - DESIGNAZIONE GIUDICE
06/05/2014 - FISSAZIONE UDIENZA PRIMA COMPAR. / TRATT. (art.183 ai sensi art. 168 bis, c.5)
09/05/2014 - RITORNO ATTI DAL PM/PG
20/05/2014 - CORREZIONE DATI FASCICOLO
12/11/2014 - RINVIATO PER PRECISAZIONE CONCLUSIONI
09/03/2016 - RINVIATO PER PRECISAZIONE CONCLUSIONI
12/09/2016 - UDIENZA RINVIATA DI UFFICIO
12/09/2016 - CORREZIONE DATI FASCICOLO
12/09/2016 - CORREZIONE DATI FASCICOLO
03/11/2016 - SOSTITUZIONE GIUDICE SUL RUOLO
03/11/2016 - UDIENZA RINVIATA DI UFFICIO
27/03/2017 - RINVIATO PER PRECISAZIONE CONCLUSIONI
03/10/2017 - SOSTITUZIONE GIUDICE
30/10/2017 - SOSTITUZIONE GIUDICE SUL RUOLO
21/11/2017 - UDIENZA RINVIATA DI UFFICIO
14/11/2018 - IN DECISIONE CON RINUNCIA TERMINI PER CONCLUSIONALI
09/01/2019 - DEPOSITO MINUTA SENTENZA DEFINITIVA
11/01/2019 - DEPOSITO SENTENZA - PUBBLICAZIONE
11/01/2019 - INVIO ATTI ALL'AGENZIA DELLE ENTRATE

We had changes of judges, 2 or 3 postponements .. to be honest it took so long that I cannot even remember now, when I compare to what has happened in my own life during this time! I didn't have Luigi on this case but another lawyer from a different firm - maybe we would've had a quicker outcome? Who knows, I think we were just quite unlucky as I know cases filed at a similar time as mine with the same law firm had quicker decisions.

Anyway, now waiting for the 6 month appeal period to run. I read something about the 30 day appeal period on this post and asked my lawyer, but she advised it was easier to sit tight and wait, so we will just do that. I feel a lot calmer now knowing the decision was a positive one and that govt is unlikely to appeal.

Does anyone have any advice on when to register for AIRE? With all the bureaucracy taking so long, I'm wondering whether to start the process before the appeal period completes, knowing it won't be looked at maybe for a couple of months .. to try and time it so that by the time my birth certificates are issued, the AIRE registration will hit at the same time.

I also have to deal with the Italian consulate in London - something which Italian friends have said is an awful experience. So I think I'm looking at myself and the rest of the family not getting our IDs/passports for another 18 months ...!!

Best of luck to everyone else!

[scoziaitaliano]

Dear All

I am pleased to advise that my journey is now at an end and afternoon I collected my Italian passport from my consulate. Many thanks to all who have provided guidance or words of support throughout the course of this process which, while frustrating at times has now taken me to where I wished to be! Happy to answer any queries I can on any of the undernoted.

My timeline was as follows:

19 September 2016 - All papers couriered to my lawyer in Italy

October 2016: Power of attorney requires to be re-executed and apostilled due to not featuring my middle name

7 November 2016 - Papers lodged at the Tribunale di Civile in Rome

15 December 2016 - Judge Vincenzo Vitalone assigned to my case

28 February 2017 - First Hearing, at which a Second Hearing is assigned for 28 November 2017

30 November 2017 - Following Second Hearing case listed as "In Decisione" and court's determination awaited

February 2018 - Court determines that a Third Hearing is required and schedules this for June: this is on the basis my grandfather (who naturalised in the UK in 1923, prior to my father's birth in 1942, hence the need for a 1948 application through my grandmother's lineage) has a relatively common Italian name, the judge wishes to be satisfied that my grandfather (and not any other individual by the same name) did naturalise in the UK and that I cannot simply apply to the consulate for a passport. I thereafter obtain an apostilled copy of my grandfather's naturalisation certificate and this is thereafter lodged in May 2018

28 June 2018 - Third Hearing takes place

7 August 2018 - Decision published in terms of which the court awards citizenship to me
Start of September - Decision formally intimated to the Italian Government, reducing the 6 month appellate period to one month

Start of October 2018 - Appellate period expires

Sometime between October and December - Decision formally intimated to my comune

14 December 2018 - Italian birth record recorded at my local comune

18 December 2018 - Italian birth record received by me from my lawyer

18 December 2018 - Registration as an Italian citzen at my local consulate made by me online as well as submitting my AIRE application; due to the "unusual situation" extra checks are made with the Italian authorities and I am asked to deposit a hard copy of the passport information page from my UK passport with the consulate.

14 January 2019 - My local consulate indicates I am registered with them and my AIRE application has been submitted to my local commune;

15 January 2019 - On the premise that passport appointments are available for early February, I book an appointment through the online prenota service for 1 February and assume that my AIRE registration will have been processed by that time.

1 February 2019 - While positive recognition of the AIRE registration has been received by me from my comune, I attend the passport appointment, provide fingerprints and pay the £103.10 GBP fee. I am advised that a Nulla Osta will require to be obtained from the Questura - and the passport should be issued within 1-2 weeks.

22 February 2019 - E-mail received from my local consulate indicating passport available for collection between Monday - Thursday, 14:30 - 16:30. I take my chances and turn up at the consulate about 15 minutes later and receive my passport on the spot!


Total time from papers being sent to Italy and passport being in hand: Two years, five months and three days!

[Barga1948]

Congrats!!! --- scoziaitaliano